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Indeed1 last won the day on July 12

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About Indeed1

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  1. Yeah, when it comes to only being able to use/run homebrew in general, consoles might not be that necessary anymore, thats true. Mini/micro PCs are more accessible now than they were before, and theres also things like Raspberry Pi (this is not be as powerful as the latest consoles though (which is to be expected considering the cheaper price), but not all homebrew require a lot of hardware power). I can still see some advantages with hacking consoles however. It can be more convenient to have everything in one box (instead of having to use e.g a Mini PC for homebrew and a console for gaming). It also makes it possible to apply mods and cheats to offline games (hacked consoles usually gets banned quickly, so i'm not sure that its that big of an issue anymore in regards to online cheating). This is of course possible on PC as well, but i'm also thinking about exclusive games to consoles. This isnt something that i personally have that much interest in, but having the option to do it can be a good thing at least. It might also be easier to make emulators for PC if a console is hacked, since maybe then its easier to see how the inner workings of a console are. Emulators might take years to make though, but it might be nice to have e.g a PS4 emulator 15-20 years from now. Theres also the community aspect around homebrew for specific consoles. I'm sure there are a community around PC homebrew too, but still, the community aspect can be a nice/interesting thing anyway. Having thing to discuss with others etc. within this field But yeah, i think that hacking today, at least for some hackers, is more about the challenge of getting past the security, just to see if they have the skills if it can be done rather than being against either Microsoft, Nintendo and/or Sony, i agree. That doesnt mean that one agree with every decision these companies make, and no problem with disagreeing with certain decisions of course, but in general, i dont think many minds that theres a security system in place on the consoles at least (and if there was no security system in the first place, there wouldnt be any challenge or hacking possible to begin with :)). The console hacking is also done to be able to run homebrew though, so thats also some part of it, but i think the challenge itself to see if the security system can be broken is the bigger factor for some hackers at least. And i think this will continue both on PS5 and Nintendo Switch 2 (or what it will be called) as well, so yeah, i think the scene will still be alive, indeed. Maybe even with Xbox too, although it doesnt seem to be that much activety there (have anyone hacked the Xbox One yet, by the way? I've seen people saying that theres not too much interest in hacking the Xbox One because homebrew can officially be run on it already, but i dont know if thats the only reason). This is also what i find the most interesting about console hacking. I mean, i dont use these hacks myself, but i find it interesting how long it potentially will take before someone are able to get past the security system, so i'm looking forward to see how the PS5 and future consoles hold up
  2. I see. I dont use IRC much myself these days, so i was just curious if its still being used in a bigger fashion I remember when basically everything was on IRC. Yeah, you're right that the vendor owns the code itself, and in a way, the exploit is part of that code, but technically, i'm not sure if anyone directly owns a bug or exploit itself. I mean, people can do a write up on how to achieve such exploits without releasing any specific code to download. I think the bug bounty programs are more about NDAs (non disclosure agreements). Its basically just a contract where theres agreement of not posting the bug/exploit to the public. This doesnt stop anyone else from finding and potentially release the exploit to the public if they want that. Sometimes NDAs can also have time limits, like in the gaming industry, where e.g reviewers sign NDAs to not publish early information about the game before a certain time/date. I wonder if the bug bounties for consoles have any time limit to them, that maybe they can release the info in X-amount of years or so. I kinda doubt that, but who knows But there might be more legality to this when it comes to releasing exploits, and i hardly know anything about that, unfortuantely. Maybe i'm reading "fighting" too literally here, so please correct me if i'm wrong, but i dont think that many hackers necessarily have the viewpoint of fighting a corporation in the regards that they're really against them or anything like that. I think its also in some cases just about a challenge, trying to break a security system to see if it can be done or not (which several of people are interested in doing) And also that they want to run their own unsigned code on the systems, even if they're not against the companies.
  3. Thanks for your input I think it depends on what you mean with having any alignment to a company. I agree that it can be important for people to say their opinion about something that they dont like about companies (or anything else as well for that matter). So if people dont like something that a company do, they can say their opinion about, for sure. When people say their opinion, the problem can be discussed, and things can change for the better. So its important that people speak against companies if people think that the companies do something thats wrong or something that they dont like, i 100% agree with that. But i dont think the console companies like Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony are trying to take over something in that regards, not at all. The only thing i can see them taking over is their competitors in the same business, but that is quite normal business competition, that is very normal and theres nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. Or what do you think that they might take over? And what do you think that the community is doing, and needs to do, to keep them in check? These companies are giving us entertainment after all, and without them, there wouldnt be any console hacking possible for their consoles in the first place But as i mentioned, i think its important for people to say their opinions if they dont like something that a company is doing, for sure, but i dont think the situation is so bad that they're trying to take stuff over or anything like that. But maybe i'm misunderstanding what you mean, so please correct me if i'm wrong and are misunderstadning what you mean I also think that the cosnumers are keeping the console companies in check to a certain degree. I dont think that the cosnole companies are free to gouges the consumers without any fear, so i have to disagree with that. If they do to much that the consumer dont like, the consumers might stop buying the products, and this will keep the companies in check, at least to some degree. After all, its very important for basically any business to keep their consumers happy I also think its important to have some balance and equality, where everyone have some rights, both the companies and the consumers. For example, if consumers should have the right to hack their device (which in general, i think they should), i think its also fair that the companies should have to right to protect against piracy. This way, both parts have their rights, and it can create a balance. If you see what i mean? Its a very big topic to discuss what the rights should be or not though, and where this this balance should be, and theres many different opinion about this. But when it comes to gaming consoles in specific, i think its more than fair that the companies tries to secure their system against piracy. That is basically only my point on this subject, in this discussion. Maybe people aren't arguing against this though, so maybe i'm misunderstanding the argument about this. EDIT: I'm sorry for the late edit, but i just wanted to add one thing, how do you mean with a wistle blower situation? That people working for Microsoft, Nintendo and/or Sony should leak information/internal code for the gaming consoles, so that the systems can be hacked easier? If you mean the first think, i dont think that should be done. A whistle blower situation is usually more about when an employee tells about internal stuff that affects people lives in one way or another, maybe even illegal stuff. This is not really the case when it comes to hacking gaming consoles. Gaming consoles are luxury entertainment products, so its not something very important in that regards. So this wouldnt really be a whistle blower situation in the same regards. If a Microsoft, Nintendo and/or Sony employee leaks interal codes for their gaming consoles to help hackers, then this is more towards being disloyal employees, not whistle blowers in that regards. Or do you mean that hacking consoles is like a whistle blower situation because it opens up the system? If so, i see what you mean, but i dont think its directly a whistle blower situation in that regards, because whistle blowing is more about exposing something bad, while hacking a console is more about just being allowed to run unsigned code on the console, remvoing restrictions from a closed system. I'm just asking why you mean with the whistle blower comment to make sure that i'm not misunderstanding what you mean with this I do understand the "them VS US" mentality when it comes to breaking the protection on a gaming console though. Like a cat and mouse game. First the protection is there, then someone find an exploit. Then this exploit is patched, and someone finds a new exploit again, and its being patch. And this can go on for a long time, like a cat and mouse game But i think both consumers should have the right to hack their own gaming console, and that the companies should have the right to protect their systems against hacking and piracy. EDIT 2: I also added some more text. --- Gaming companies have always tried to fight piracy, so i dont think this is that much different now than it was before, so there is no "all-out war" going on now compared to before, at least from my experience. I've been in the gaming community for many, many years, and i have never seen Microsoft, Nintendo and/or Sony doing an all-out advertising campaign to the public talking about the console hacking communities being basically like organized crime, if that is what you mean? If so, do you have any examples of that where i can see these ads? And how do you mean about using police power in a civil dispute? Where did that happened? Recruiting hackers for security work is actually not that uncommon. I'm kinda surprised why Sony hasnt done this before actually (at least when it comes to the bug bounty program) because it can be a pretty effective way to increase security. When it comes to computer security in general, many of those who work with computer security are actually hackers. For example, CTurt, who hacked the PS4 first, he is now working for Microsoft when it comes to security --- I dont think there will any gaming market crash in the next few years. Only time will tell what happends, but i feel that people have speculated in this for quite some time now, and the gaming industry is maybe bigger than it has ever been It doesnt seem to be any gaming market crash coming, at least not anytime soon. When it comes to games being unfinished, its true that some games have some bugs and problems, for sure, but personally, i have hardly played any games that were in an almost unplayable state/level. The only game i think of is Nuclear Throne for Vita. That game had some game crashes at the later level, so i was never able to finish the game because of that (and it was unfortunately never fixed/patched on the Vita. It was only patched on the PS4). I also cant think of many cases where one have to buy extra items just to finish the game. Maybe this is more for mobile games, but not for console games at least (or do you mean this being mostly for mobile games?). The only example i can kinda think of is "Asura's Wrath" for PS3/Xbox 360. This game had a DLC pack with the "real ending" for the game. Otherwise most games can be finished without any problems. At least from my experience, and i've been playing games for many, many years. --- But i do agree with you that its important that the consumers say their opinion if they dont like something. I dont think this is limited to any underground community (or how do you mean that the industry needs the underground community? And what defines the underground community? Those who are hacking consoles and are using console hacks for personal use?), but for every consumer in general. When people say their opinion, things can change for the better, that is true Understood, i see what you mean. Its true that bug bounties can make exploits more rare, but i still believe that there will be an active console hacking community. I think theres still interest in hacking the consoles, simply just for the challenge alone. Like both Apple and Nintendo have bug bounties as well, but their systems are still getting hacked (latest Switch firmware is hacked when it comes to Nintendo, and iOS 14 jailbreak is also available when it comes to Apple). But only time will tell what happends. Security in general seems to be getting better and better as well, making it harder to find exploits, bug bounties or not, but there always seems to be some bugs/exploits popping up anyway Are there still a community on IRC by the way? Or have mostly moved over to Reddit and Twitter as you mention? Maybe Discord too. About TheFlow. I understand. Thats true, i was just curious if he had replied.
  4. No worries. Thanks for your reply too I understand. I guess that your intial reaction was more about that this bug bounty program could make it a lot harder to get PS4 hacks, and that isn't something that you wanted? And then later when you thought more about it, you're not angry at either Sony (because its understandable that they want to protect their system against piracy) or those who want to participate in such bug bounty program (because its their choice what to do with their own work (assuming that what they submit to the bug bounty program is mostly their own work/research at least))? If thats the case, i can see that situation. Its not that uncommon to react more strongly at first, then think a bit more about the situation later on, reflecting on the situation. Someone might react differently later on though, maybe they get angry if someone misunderstood them, and dont take the time to explain what they really ment. So what you do here, taking the time to explain what you meant, and saying that you used some harsh words in the begining, the saying that you didnt really mean that, i think is a very good human quality/attribute to have I dont think everyone would have done this. And i also understand the situation if console hacks becomes more more rare (at least to the public), that this can be boring and suck. I mean, this means less activity in a field/subject that one are interested in. I don't hack my consoles personally (the last consoles i modded was my PS1 and PS2, which i did back in the days :)), so its not that big of a deal for me personally if a console gets hacked or not, but i still find it interesting to see how long a console's security system can hold up before someone are able to get around it, and i think it can be interesting to read how people were able to do that. This is how i found this website in the first place, because i read about the recent PS4 kernel exploit, eventhough i'm not hacking my own PS4 I would also just like to add a side note that console hacking isnt just about piracy of course. I dont mean to say that, so i just wanted to point that out. I think its safe to say that the majority of people use it for piracy however (which is also primarily why Sony (and Microsoft and Nintendo as well for that matter) tries to stop console hacks. And i guess the possibility of making it easier to cheating online in games is another reason), but its fully possible to use and enjoy console hacks without doing any piracy as well. Its the same with emulators. Its fully possible to use emulators without piracy. But i think its up to each person to decide what they want to do with the hacks, piracy or not, so i wont say much about that. Have a nice day! EDIT: By the way, did TheFlow reply to you after you explained what you meant? If i can ask about that. EDIT 2: The FreeBSD exploit is now mentioned on FreeBSD's own site as well: https://www.freebsd.org/security/advisories.html (I just thought i'd mention it since i talked about these exploits might be publically known even if theres a situation were Sony's bug bounty program might not allow for disclosure of exploits (they did allow it this time to my surprise, but who knows what will happen the next time. Maybe they allowed it this time because it was related to FreeBSD in general, and knew that it would be publically know anyway, but thats just a guess from my side). As long as the exploit is related to FreeBSD, i think it will be publically known regardless :)).
  5. I dont think that the Playstation bug bounty program necessarily means that the PS4 scene is dead. I know that this post/thread was written before TheFlow released his PS4 firmware 7.02 exploit, so maybe there were some uncertainties that this exploit would be released to the public or not. If thats the case, i can see that, but eventhough the Playstation bug bounty program exist, it still show that exploits can be released. I must admit that i was surprised that Sony allowed this exploit to be released to the public. I didnt think that they would allow it, because eventhough the exploit was patched, releasing it to the public would still mean a newer exploit being possible (previous one was for firmware 5.05 i think?). But it happened, so its not impossible that it can happen again Another thing is also that FreeBSD exploits in general (which is what the 7.02 exploit is) could very well be documented for the public. FreeBSD's official website list a lot of known exploits (maybe all of them?) for anyone to check out: https://www.freebsd.org/security/advisories.html | I will not be surprised if we also see documentation here for the exploit thats being used for PS4 firmware 7.02. And since future FreeBSD exploits will be documented as well, its possible that people can take this public and documented information and see if can be used on the PS4 as well (and most likely PS5 too). But only time will tell what happends. I would also just like to add a sidenote that the Playstation bug bounty program is not just for the PS4 itself, but also including their Playstation related websides and the Playstation Network as a whole. So this could encourage faster security fixes there, which is positive of course (i dont think anyone here is disagreeing with this, i'm just more generally speaking =)). That said, i'm pretty sure that this thread is only talking about the PS4 part, but i just wanted to add this as a side note to whats also the intention with the bug bounty program. I think its pretty strong word to say that someone doesnt have no morals and no human decency, and that they're selling their soul for making money on console exploits. In the bigger pictures, consoles arent really that big of a deal in that regards after all, and i think its understandable that Sony wants to protect their consoles from piracy. But maybe the issue here isnt that Sony has a bug bount program, but perhaps something else instead? --- When it comes to TheFlow, i dont know too much about the situation, so unfortunately i cant say much about it. I dont know if the exploit he found on the PS4 was pretty much only his own work or if he borrowed/recieved help from others who had no idea that it would be submitted to a bug bounty program. I see that he thanks a few people, but have anyone of those spoken up and said that they didnt know, and/or that they feel that they should also be payed? I also dont think this thread is the only thing that made him say that he would leave the scene. I might be mixing him up with someone else, but i think he has complained about toxic behavior before as well. I wont be surprised if many people have asked him on Twitter when his announced PS4 exploit would be released, and maybe be angry with him for not releasing it sooner. But as i mentioned, i might be mixing him up with someone else. EDIT: And when TheFlow said that he was not part of the scene, i'm guessing that hes just referring to the part that asks and maybe complains to him about releasing exploits, but i'm not sure. --- I didnt read the original thread here, but i appreciate edit that clearifies what the main intention was How much support money from the scene did octox0r recieve before he joined this bug bounty program? Did he promise any exploit release and asked for money? I'm just wondering since i havnt heard about this situation before It is possible that we get another CTurt, Specter or Qwertyuiopz indeed, but its also possible that they might not release exploits for the public, or at least waiting a long time before its being done. For example, when CTurt released his exploit for PS4 firmware 1.76, he said that the exploit was fixed a long time ago, and he hoped that releasing it to the public wouldnt lead to any adverse effect. So he was caution about releasing it. If it wasnt patched, maybe he wouldnt have released it at all, but who knows. I dont know about Specter and Qwertyuiopz though, if they said something similar. Or now that i think about it, didnt Qwertyuiopz say that he released his exploit because it was already patched? But maybe i'm remembering wrong EDIT: I fixed a typo.
  6. Hello Indeed1, Welcome to PlayStationHaX. Please feel free to browse around and get to know the others. If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask. Indeed1 joined on the 07/08/2020. View Member
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