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GregoryRasputin

Now Is The Time For A PS4 Homebrew Competition

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A couple of years ago I bitched on Twitter that homebrew developers were being lazy in not creating any homebrew, the response I got was "there is no open source SDK".

 

 

There now is an open source SDK as well as the ability to use Unity, so there is zero excuses now not to make any hombres apart from laziness.

 

So to give people the incentive to create homebrew I am going to continue the discussion of a homebrew competition that was started earlier by @zecoxao on Twitter.

 

I can probably contribute $150 towards the prize fund, what we need are other contributors, we also need ideas on how the competition can be managed, the rules and anything else important to running a competition, lets make this the best competition in a long time, let's start this competition now.

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Posted (edited)

IMO i think that a Contest is still to early to be a good contest IMO.  There simply is not enough of a reach for the community to attract enough development to stratify a content IMO.

 

I believe Lazy is the wrong assessment to use and is an incorrect statement. I think has nothing to do with laziness of someone and i think if we believe that is the issues we are looking for something that is not a proper fix or spark like a contest should do.  Homebrew development is a hobby task, so when someone has time and a desire they do something, its not about if they are being lazy as they are not obligated to perform or produce anything or in any timeframe, So i think that is the wrong attitude to have in suggesting its laziness we see less homebrew development.

 

The PS4 scene is the way it is, for one single sole reason and that is because it has never been exploited on a current firmware ever. Which is going to choke the scene and development because the platform is not easily to obtained and you simply have alot less contributions coming.

 

We have made steps, but just because we see some of these steps does not mean they magically have an impact. They take time and EVEN MORE time in a platform that has a limited reach and never has been a platform that has seen waves of new users like exploits on other platforms.

 

Best time for a contest in my view to have the greatest impact  is when a Current Firmware is hacked.  Yes, Sony patches quickly (as they should) after but there is a TRUE PATH of a user if they desire to not update or not.   When you have that choice you have opened up the community to many more hobby developer's..

 

If we are looking for Contest to be a solution or part of a solution, then i think we need to look at the real issues of the scene and see if the contest serves those needs and in my view they simply do not fix the current  issue that are really the bottlenecks. A contest at anytime will be a spark not saying that but honesty i do not think it would be that needed spark but maybe a step towards that.  I think in reality its too early. I mean we just got Open Orbis SDK and that is even in its early stages.

 

Edit

When obtaining a console could likely be about what a top prize would get, there is not much incentives in those regards for an outsider.

" i can win $200 (just a random figure) but i have to spend $300 (not sure current prize/rate) for a 5.05 PS4."

 

I am not saying its a bad idea, but not sure its a good idea in respects that is going to get results or change much of anything.

 

 

 

Edited by STLcardsWS
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Hello,

 

I think the same as @STLcardsWS. It's too early for a homebrew contest. The idea, of course, is interesting because it can motivate people to develop on PS4, but as STL said only certain PS4 (on a specific firmware) can run homebrews. So, even if people would have been curious to develop homebrews after seeing the contest, as soon as they would see that an outdated version is needed, more than half of them would be unable to participate. :/

 

I don't know what to say more honestly, because STL already said everything I wanted to say. ^^

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Hi and sorry for my late reply. I didn't see this until today when Greg mentioned me on Twitter.

As always, my stance is the following:

- I'm totally open to participate in such a contest with you folks, a bunch of trusted people getting together for this is always great!

- I would only act as a sponsor*. I think I can provide $150 for now. Might be able to provide more but not sure at the moment.

- Unlike @STLcardsWS and @WirusI think now is an ok time to have a contest. If not now, then when? People's interest will go down very fast as soon as the PS5 is out. The first contest is never the best, but we need to start somewhere, and in my experience there is always a handful of good entries in the first contest, that end up being great homebrew for a long time in the life of the console. Conversely, if we do nothing, the scene could possibly die right now.

 

Didn't the folks behind the SDK say they would organize a contest themselves??? I'd be open to sponsor that if it's on the table.

 

* What I mean here is that I do not have the time to help enforcing rules, or judging, or anything like that. I know it's lame, and I know this led to conflict in the past, but such is the reality of my life nowadays. I will of course promote the contest on my blog, talk about new entries, etc...

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3 hours ago, wololo said:

- Unlike @STLcardsWS and @WirusI think now is an ok time to have a contest. If not now, then when? People's interest will go down very fast as soon as the PS5 is out. The first contest is never the best, but we need to start somewhere, and in my experience there is always a handful of good entries in the first contest, that end up being great homebrew for a long time in the life of the console. Conversely, if we do nothing, the scene could possibly die right now.

 

 

I disagree with interest will go down when PS5 is released.  That does not explain why the PS2 currently has a more active / larger development base then the PS4 currently or why the / ps3 / vita are all still larger and more active then the PS4 despite being older.. The new console has nothing to do with it . Maybe in about 3 years it could (if exploited). 

 

I think we all know if there was a PS4 exploit that emerged on a current firmware after the PS5 was released it would still be a big deal and also would have a large audience. Much bigger reach and interest then what it has been in the past and now,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks everyone for responding.

 

Generally scene contests happen when the console is in it's prime and occurs not long after the exploit has been released, take both of the successful PS Vita contests, the one that happened before HENkaku was released and the HENkaku one, they both happened shortly after release.

One could argue that all the consoles were exploitable thus why there were such successful competitions, but we have been stuck on 5.05 on the PS4 for a LONG time and nothing has happened in regards of a homebrew contest, my reason for suggesting a competition now and probably aligns with @zecoxao and @wololo's reasoning is that we do not know when there will be a new exploit released, the people who have such exploits said we will see one when the PS4 is at EOL, when exactly is EOL? This is only something they know, it could be four or five years away or more, so where is the harm in holding a competition now for people on 5.05, something to tide us by until a future exploit is released.

 

I also want to point out @STLcardsWS that the PS3 scene is popular now, because it has always been popular, nobody can deny how damn awesome that scene was from the release of PS Jailbreak onwards, whereas the PS4 scene has never really been hugely popular and never really will be in comparison to other scenes and I believe that if we leave a contest too long, then there won't be enough interest in the future to hold one.

 

As far as which sites are in charge or who runs it I simply do not care, I just want to contribute and be part of a PS4 competition before it's too late to have one.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/15/2020 at 6:01 AM, GregoryRasputin said:

Thanks everyone for responding.

 

Generally scene contests happen when the console is in it's prime and occurs not long after the exploit has been released, take both of the successful PS Vita contests, the one that happened before HENkaku was released and the HENkaku one, they both happened shortly after release.

One could argue that all the consoles were exploitable thus why there were such successful competitions, but we have been stuck on 5.05 on the PS4 for a LONG time and nothing has happened in regards of a homebrew contest, my reason for suggesting a competition now and probably aligns with @zecoxao and @wololo's reasoning is that we do not know when there will be a new exploit released, the people who have such exploits said we will see one when the PS4 is at EOL, when exactly is EOL? This is only something they know, it could be four or five years away or more, so where is the harm in holding a competition now for people on 5.05, something to tide us by until a future exploit is released.

 

I also want to point out @STLcardsWS that the PS3 scene is popular now, because it has always been popular, nobody can deny how damn awesome that scene was from the release of PS Jailbreak onwards, whereas the PS4 scene has never really been hugely popular and never really will be in comparison to other scenes and I believe that if we leave a contest too long, then there won't be enough interest in the future to hold one.

 

As far as which sites are in charge or who runs it I simply do not care, I just want to contribute and be part of a PS4 competition before it's too late to have one.

 

  to late  theory is wrong: :)

--- Recent Example: Was PS3HEN to late for PS3 SuperSlim user's?

--- True or False? Will the Scene likely be bigger when a current firmware exploit is released on the PS4, then it is currently ?

---  Does PS5 have impact on PS4 Homebrew? The big picture No (now we can inject this 4 or 5 or more years ).. Is the PS5 going to magically get better development before the PS4 does?

 

 

Edited by STLcardsWS
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@STLcardsWS I think that is where your fatal flaw regarding this lies, you are comparing the PS4 scene to the PS3 scene or rather using the PS3 scene as an example of how scenes can rise again.

 

The huge difference is that the PS3 scene was great from it being hacked up until now, the same could be said for the PSP  and PS2 scenes, I am sure we could start a competition in all three of those scenes and they would have huge success and that simple fact lies down to those scenes having heart, where as the PS4 has a barely beating heart with barely anyone even some of the top developers caring about it.

 

The fact we do not know when we will ever have a new exploit makes it even less excitable.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/17/2020 at 5:52 AM, GregoryRasputin said:

@STLcardsWS I think that is where your fatal flaw regarding this lies, you are comparing the PS4 scene to the PS3 scene or rather using the PS3 scene as an example of how scenes can rise again.

 

The huge difference is that the PS3 scene was great from it being hacked up until now, the same could be said for the PSP  and PS2 scenes, I am sure we could start a competition in all three of those scenes and they would have huge success and that simple fact lies down to those scenes having heart, where as the PS4 has a barely beating heart with barely anyone even some of the top developers caring about it.

 

The fact we do not know when we will ever have a new exploit makes it even less excitable.

100%

 

I would even argue the time has passed.  If there is 0 interest now, right before next gen is released, then it's dead.

 

Unfortunately @GregoryRasputin we will never see a decent scene again, in any forum, at least in our lifetime.  That is just the sad truth and @STLcardsWS is a prime example as to why--no offense to him, or anyone else whatsoever, that is just where we are as a society now.

 

It is an extremely sad state of affairs but also the main reason why this is my first post on any forum since around 2 years ago.  There is no scene, there is no community, there is no integrity.  Every person for themselves to the highest bidder and stab anyone in the back they can to make the payday, regardless of whose work they stole to get there.

 

Exploits are available and viable for higher firmwares but why should anyone share them?

 

1.  They get consultancy fees for turning in these exploits to sony

2.  They share the exploits with a few people and get raided and their lives destroyed

3.  They share with a small group of people and then someone in that group takes their works and sells it to Sony as their own

 

Where is the upside to anyone creating anything and sharing it publicly?

 

The honor code we lived by for decades @GregoryRasputin is long dead and gone.

 

FYI and to prove I am not just full of hot air and to prove my point.  I will give $500 CAD (sorry folks, I am Canadian so we deal in my currency) on July 16th, 2020 to the person that delivers to these forums a functioning exploit functional on 7.50/7.51.  **Something that propels the scene forward and can run hen and will allow all current homebrew to be ported and functional on 7.50/7.51 FW.

 

I currently have a console on 7.50 FW so the conditions are simple.  I must be able to follow the current exploit guides for 5.xx and below firmwares on my console, get hen successfully loaded, launch a game, be able to mod that game via rtm or another method and be able to load a game via usb or another device..

 

This also must be released publicly and shared publicly for everyone to use in order to get my money.  I invite others to add to my contribution to enlarge the pool and incentive.

 

MY GUESS:  There will be 0 interest and 0 entries.  It wouldn't matter if I offered $10k or $50.  Sony pays better and no one cares about improving their reputation in a dead scene that no one has any interest in any longer.

Edited by rednekcowboy
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Posted (edited)
On 6/15/2020 at 12:18 AM, STLcardsWS said:

 

That does not explain why the PS2 currently has a more active / larger development base then the PS4 currently or why the / ps3 / vita are all still larger and more active then the PS4 despite being older.. The new console has nothing to do with it .

 

That does illustrate exactly the problem, doesn't it?  Isn't that exactly what everyone is saying?

 

It isn't that those older scenes have gained in popularity so much so that they propulsed themselves ahead of the current PS4 generation at all...it is simply that there is absolutely 0, zilch, nada ps4 scene whatsoever.

Quote

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

added 8 minutes later
On 6/7/2020 at 12:15 PM, STLcardsWS said:

The PS4 scene is the way it is, for one single sole reason and that is because it has never been exploited on a current firmware ever.

 

 

 

Not at all.  There has always been current firmware exploits and you very well know this.

 

It is extremely disengenuous of you to say otherwise--that is unless you are so extremely out of touch, you truthfully have no idea.  Which would be sad as that would mean, after not having anything to do with hacking for years, I am still more in touch with the reality of the scene than you are. 😛

 

The PS4 scene is the way it is simply because Sony won.  We all know this is true.  Sony either pays hackers for their exploits or, when that doesn't work, uses the government and the law to enforce their will and scare people into doing their bidding.

 

This started in the PS3 scene and I, among others warned that this day would come.  A day where there is no community, loyalty or integrity.  A day where the corporations that spent years and millions in ads and enforcement would convince the next generation that being a sellout is OK and that somehow piracy and hacking is evil instead of the evil corporations themselves.

 

That is the reason why the PS4 is dead.  Full Stop.

Edited by rednekcowboy
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18 minutes ago, rednekcowboy said:

 

 

Not at all.  There has always been current firmware exploits and you very well know this.

 

It is extremely disengenuous of you to say otherwise--that is unless you are so extremely out of touch, you truthfully have no idea.  Which would be sad as that would mean, after not having anything to do with hacking for years, I am still more in touch with the reality of the scene than you are. 😛

 

The PS4 scene is the way it is simply because Sony won.  We all know this is true.  Sony either pays hackers for their exploits or, when that doesn't work, uses the government and the law to enforce their will and scare people into doing their bidding.

 

This started in the PS3 scene and I, among others warned that this day would come.  A day where there is no community, loyalty or integrity.  A day where the corporations that spent years and millions in ads and enforcement would convince the next generation that being a sellout is OK and that somehow piracy and hacking is evil instead of the evil corporations themselves.

 

That is the reason why the PS4 is dead.  Full Stop.

 

LoL 

 

The PS4 has never had a public exploit that was released on a current firmware:

- That is the #1 issue on the PS4 scene. That issue trickles down to cause the issue of lack of development.

ITS NOT A LACK OF INTEREST. ITS A LACK Of OBTAINBILITY OF A PLATFORM

 

If the PS4 scene was dead you and others would not whining about it. Means there interest enough to go on a forum and bitch about it  :)

 

 

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, STLcardsWS said:

 

LoL 

 

The PS4 has never had a public exploit that was released on a current firmware:

 

 

 

Did I every once say there was?  That doesn't mean they don't exist (and you know damn well they do--unless you truly have fallen that out of touch that someone who hasn't been active in years has more or a pulse on what is happening than you do)  and that is what the exact problem is.  Exactly what incentive is there to make anything public?

 

Perhaps you should read all of my posts in their entirety to understand my position.

 

The PS4 scene IS DEAD.  It is 2 years behind the current FW with NO NEW DEVELOPMENT PUBLICLY.  That sir, is the very definition of DEAD. :P

 

Where is this interest you speak of?  I don't see any active forums or communities at all.  I was extremely surprised this one was still here.  In fact, you and I are the only ones on it currently......The most active members of the week are on the board for their postings in this very thread.  Where is the interest sir?

Edited by rednekcowboy
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@STLcardsWS you are correct that the PS4 has never had an exploit on a current firmware, but that did not stop many people getting PS4's on 5.05 and having months of fun with pirated games, there could have been more people in the scene, but people simply did not care nor were interested in sitting on firmware 5.05 until an exploit came out, @Mathieulh amongst others including myself advised and warned people over and over again to not update if they were on firmware 5.05, people decided to update rather than wait, simply because they didn't care to sit and wait to see if an exploit would come out for firmware 5.05.

 

@rednekcowboy I think the PS3 scene was the last proper PlayStation console scene, I do not think we will see a PS scene anything like what we had on PS2 and PS3, the PS5 will be no different in terms of exploits than the PS4 and I think it will be the first PlayStation console I have gotten where I won't be modding or hacking it in anyway, I am simply to old and too busy to wait for something never coming out.

 

I wouldn't say the PS4 scene is dead, I think it is more like in a hibernation or deep sleep waiting for something that no one knows when it's going to be released, that's why I was hoping for this competition to give the scene a surge of energy to keep it going to the EOL exploit release.

 

But scenes are filled with stubborn people and that is why things never happen or get done, there is no harm in having more than one competition, one now and one when the EOL is released, that shouldn't be a problem if people are convinced the scene will be striving then.

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Posted (edited)

I couldn't agree more @GregoryRasputin that we will never see another scene like the PS3 or those prior to it.

 

However I don't really agree that the lack of progress is due to stubborn people and moreso to do with the all out attack campaign launched by the gaming industry as a whole, using government agencies and law enforcement to take criminal measures in civil disputes and spending millions in advertising dollars convincing the new generation that people like us and scenes like this are evil and a detriment to society.  On top of that, they also spent large amounts of money hiring and paying for "security consultants" to sell whatever vulnerabilities are found in their systems to them.

 

This 3 step process was very successful and is why we are where we are now.  You and I are the old guard sir and there is no new generation behind us simply because instead of free thinking individuals, it is now a generation of self-absorbed sheeple believing whatever info is spoon-fed to them and looking for the best and quickest way to make a buck.  There is no integrity or loyalty or morale in today's society and it will only continue to worsen.

 

@STLcardsWS please point out where I am whining about anything.  I haven't even been around.  I am not asking for anything or demanding anything.  I offered cash simply to prove a point.  There is no need to be an asshole and devolve into name calling and childish behavior simply because we don't agree.

 

FYI, I picked up a PS4 for the sole reason my daughter wanted to play TLOU2.  I thought I would check things out.  I have no skin in the game here whatsoever as I saw the writing on the wall long ago.

Edited by rednekcowboy

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Freedom of information's future is quite bleak, isn't it? Just like @rednekcowboy, I saw the writing on the wall too, but unlike him I dared not to believe it.

We've seen a shift in generations the later part of this decade, the community that used to flood the internet with exploits, p2p, warez, whistleblowers seem to be have been decaying these past few years, and is not only the console scenes, look at how long's been since Read Dead Redemption II is out, and not a sight of a crack yet. The latest highlight in that regard was with whatshisname from Bulgaria? Had a homebrew server for cracks and even online playability. The feds shut him down and since them, zilch.

 

I admit I have an almost communist way of looking at things, to me every single bit of information should be free, most of the books I've read, most of the plethora of music I have and definitely most of my games came from P2P, even in these all mighty big brother days of constant monitoring we live in, I make my stand in favor of freedom of information. Of course there is damage to authorial rights, but in my opinion the overall reach and impact that an easy access to quality content has is collectively positive. Who in this forum hasn't learned from p2p shared content? In some parts of the world like my own country, sometimes is the only way to keep up with new developments. I know some of you are adamant defenders of strictly homebrew, and openly advocate against piracy. I agree that a secondary market with pirated content is wrong, but I draw the line there. When it comes to video-game consoles, the first priority will be games, that's a given. I think history has proven that without a considerably wide open system there is no real scene. Vita is an amazing example, how incredible it has become since Enso, the amount of functionality it has today is unbelievable.

 

Sorry if I drifted off-topic a bit, but in a nutshell both @GregoryRasputin and @STLcardsWS have a point, without a current jailbreak there's no real scene, just like without daring devs disrupting the status quo with great homebrews, resulting from the aforementioned debated contest perhaps? This shallow slumbering scene we have right now on 5.05 is useless.

I still maintain my holy trinity, epub reading with Vita using Albite Reader, media content through Movian on PS3, and the my 5.05 PS4 Pro is still here, just waiting for greatness.

 

This scene needs devs like the Three Musketeers from the PS3 days, full-stacks that get shit done and have the balls to stick it to the man and put it out there, not just brag about themselves and their inner circle on lives on twitch and banter on twitter (when they're not selling their zer0days, that is).

 

How did we get here?

 

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