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Yeah @Indeed1 you are right. Hackers dont have the viewpoint of fighting corporations anymore. Its not really justified in the present day. Back in the day, computers were expensive, phones had no power, games consoles were cheaper, so it made sense for people to want to unlock their console for all the homebrew potential. Now computers are cheap, phones are cheap and powerful, consoles well it depends. Id argue now we dont even have a need to unlock our home consoles for homebrew, when in reality we can do all that stuff on our phones/PCs. Maybe portable console sure, but home consoles? Yeah theres no really point anymore. So truely, theres no more corperation fighting any longer. It has, and it always has been, as you say, about the challenge. Who has the most technical balls to unlock a secure console. Whos got the skills to show off. The 'Scene' is still alive and well. Its not about piracy anymore. Its just about having the know-how to unlock the devices. Playing the race to see which group is best.
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I see. I dont use IRC much myself these days, so i was just curious if its still being used in a bigger fashion I remember when basically everything was on IRC. Yeah, you're right that the vendor owns the code itself, and in a way, the exploit is part of that code, but technically, i'm not sure if anyone directly owns a bug or exploit itself. I mean, people can do a write up on how to achieve such exploits without releasing any specific code to download. I think the bug bounty programs are more about NDAs (non disclosure agreements). Its basically just a contract where theres agreement of not posting the bug/exploit to the public. This doesnt stop anyone else from finding and potentially release the exploit to the public if they want that. Sometimes NDAs can also have time limits, like in the gaming industry, where e.g reviewers sign NDAs to not publish early information about the game before a certain time/date. I wonder if the bug bounties for consoles have any time limit to them, that maybe they can release the info in X-amount of years or so. I kinda doubt that, but who knows But there might be more legality to this when it comes to releasing exploits, and i hardly know anything about that, unfortuantely. Maybe i'm reading "fighting" too literally here, so please correct me if i'm wrong, but i dont think that many hackers necessarily have the viewpoint of fighting a corporation in the regards that they're really against them or anything like that. I think its also in some cases just about a challenge, trying to break a security system to see if it can be done or not (which several of people are interested in doing) And also that they want to run their own unsigned code on the systems, even if they're not against the companies.
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Sell Your Soul To Sony For $50,000
GregoryRasputin replied to GregoryRasputin's topic in Official PS4 News
Fuck the vendor, it has always been about the cat and mouse between them and us, bug bounties turn those who be potential scene heroes into a pawn for the corporation they were meant to be fighting. -
I haven't been able to find any legal documents which says who owns the vulnerability apart from you own the vulnerable code that was written, but not the bug itself. Because the bug is in the software of someone else's code. By this and your assumptions, then a hacker does not own the exploit at all. That means if they find any exploits they have to instantly report them to the vendor. So then there's no scene to begin with because you shouldn't be sharing bugs that you don't own right? Furthermore if I use someone else's bug to test my exploit, as you mention a WebKit bug to test a Kernal exploit, then I can still report my Exploit to be fixed, as long as I don't report the other exploit I used to test it. It's not owned by the community or anyone, it's owned by the vendor.
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Just sent you a PM @xxmcvapourxx, which port should I use while connecting to irc.vapour-server.com? I'm getting a time out on both 6667 and +6697.
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Sell Your Soul To Sony For $50,000
GregoryRasputin replied to GregoryRasputin's topic in Official PS4 News
@Indeed1 there are scene IRC channels and servers, but people have mostly went to the likes of Discord and Telegram. PlayStationHaX has an IRC server, though not that active as it is fairley new, there is a thread here created by Vapor. @ehneo I agree with most of what you wrote, apart from the modern day bit. If a hacker finds an exploit in a console he has hacked, the code is technically not his as it still belongs to the company of the device he has hacked, It is even less his if he used tools or methods of other hackers who came before him or used methods to test his exploit. Which is where scene comes to play, without other developers some of those who release code might not achieve what they want or not achieve it as fast, for example if a WebKit was not available then one cannot test a KExploit to see if it works properly, if a WebKit exists, then said hacker would have to use a WebKit which someone else apart from the hacker has already created, hence the community aspect. You cannot make a cheesy chicken omelette, without the cheese, chicken and eggs... -
Waiting for the no load time screen The fast travel will be fast in seconds not minutes
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Hello HARFOSHI, Welcome to PlayStationHaX. Please feel free to browse around and get to know the others. If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask. HARFOSHI joined on the 07/13/2020. View Member
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Clarification On My Opinion On PS4 Bug Bounties
RiPPERD replied to GregoryRasputin's topic in PS4 General
Couldn't agree more with this... there was a time where the "scene" actually meant something... it was the scene vs the corperation. (Cat n Mouse, cops and robbers) I guess the trouble is people work harder and harder but get paid FA and now money talks more than it did years ago... now if the corps offer the devs money they bite their hands off. Personally i think this all started with George Hotz guy who sony paid off for his hack... opened a whole can of worms lol. Dont get me wrong if i was as clever as these devs i would think about the money but it should be done in a way that the scene (your roots so to speak) benifits too, like you said this isnt a 1 man band operation, the dev had donations, help from other members, testers etc who now have nothing to show for it. The whole world is just too greedy, its just the way of life now. None of us can honeslty say that if we were offered a lump sum of money (especially in lock down) that we wouldnt at least consider taking it... I guess it just depends on what type of person you are. I would have shared it with the scene before sending it to sony... if it only works upto 6.72 / 7.02 then they have either already patched it on newer firmware(s) or they can in future ones anyway. Everyones a winner... for now. NEVER FORGET YOUR ROOTS OR WHERE YOU STARTED TEAMWORK MAKES THE DREAM WORK! -
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Interesting topic to get started. This kind of belief goes way back when. I've watched the scene from the PS1 days and its fair to say its come a long way. But lets take it back a knotch to the early days. Back in the day, PS1/PS2, when you found an exploit in a system that was it. That exploit stayed there until there was a hardware revision. There was no software updates back then, exploits stayed. There was no bug bounties, no interconnecting responsibilities. Exploits on PS1/PS2 worked only on those consoles. They didnt affect hardware or software on other platforms. Then you see more open source tools, updating software via the internet. Everyone starts to mix and match open source tools. (Why dont people write their own, well theres not that many people in the world that can write a secure SSL/TLS protocol or implement cryptographic protocols properly? So better not risk it). Later in the gen information security started to become more important, more R&D/gov funds/companies picking up on their infosec. This brings the time of the PSP onwards (PS3/PS4). Where exploiting finding became much more difficult, especially with the added complexity of the systems. It doesnt just affect consoles, it now all electronics come into the mix. PS3/PS4 based on FreeBSD, Webkit used in iPhones/consoles, so exploits become cross platform. You find an exploit in webkit, release it as a zero day. Some NSA/CIA use it to exploit someones phone and kill them. Yes this happens. Furthermore, the increased knowledge of infosec meant there were more hackers out there than before. Better resources to learn, internet etc. During this, a period of companies fighting/suing hackers for finding exploits. The winner, well depended on the country and lawyers. Thankfully it took some time for it to reveal that jailbreaking is not illegal. Given that companies, naturally, want to protect their assets. Its fine to run whatever code you want, but its not fine to leak key encryption keys which can lead to copyright theft/stealing/unwanted copies of software. So bug bounties are introduced, as a way to incentivise InfoSec community to report and be paid for their exploits. This brings us to the modern day hacker, who can spend months upto a year longer, to find and develop worthy exploits in a system, e.g. a kernel exploit in a PS4. PS4 runs FreeBSD, which your local university runs a copy of, another critical server runs a copy of it too. So that exploit does not just hurt the PS4, it hurts alot more people. The person who wrote the exploit, its their code, its their attack. They can do whatever they want with it. You have a few options Release the exploit, Company will patch it within a few weeks, vendors who run FreeBSD frantically figure out a way to patch and secure systems. Those with critical infrastructure have to be on high alert now a zero day is out in the wild. The hacker, who released the exploit, gets sued by people who use FreeBSD and were attacked. It was your unique weapon after all. You get nothing and get disrespect by the InfoSec community (where all these hackers work) as someone who is not trustworthy with finding attack vectors You do the 90 day disclosure, you can alert people who care about exploits to not upgrade past FW x.xx. The people who run critical systems have a chance to defend themselves and fix the bug. After 90 days you release it and it can be used freely. You get some form of compensation after all the months of free labour you put in. You get some respect as being a responsible individual to the community Most people who complain about hackers doing disclosure have never, ever written an exploit themselves. So really, they have no say. Next theres the 'scene' who lets be honest, we know about that. You want homebrew on the system you bought, well then find the exploit yourself. "But its my system I want to do what I want" <- No one is stopping you doing anything, you just cant find exploits yourself so you whine and complain about it online... You dont buy a car and steal the gas? When you buy a car you know to run it you will need gas.
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Hello ehneo, Welcome to PlayStationHaX. Please feel free to browse around and get to know the others. If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask. ehneo joined on the 07/12/2020. View Member
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